The perfect saddle - continued...
Being here without power and Internet, I thought I would continue my ramblings regarding the quest for a perfect saddle. here using my IPad to dribble down a rough idea of the current state of affairs.
Thursday I returned the Selle SMP Saddle to Central Wheel with some trepedations, as although I did not feel 100% comfortable on it, I did have added power, (More on this later). I then went to Berlin Cycle to find out that my Specialized Romin was not in yet, and that it would arrive on Friday. As it was raining I did not mind that much.
Friday came and it was a beautiful day for a ride, but I had to work. After work I again went to Berlin Cycle to find that my Romin was in. Not the SL model that I ordered, but the new 2012 version they called the PRO. The Pro has carbon rails that are 8mm thick, and would not fit on most seat posts. Scott asked me what seat post I had, and told him the Thompson Masterpiece. The Thompson clamps from the top so there was no problem. I then stopped off at Cycling Concepts to pick up my headbands that I had ordered the day before, and we weighted the saddle. The SL was quoted at 209 grams, but the Pro turned out to be only 162 grams...NICE! The only downside to all of this is that the carbon rails might not hold my large frame...but it gave me a lighter bike by some 100 grams...Ya baby Ya!
I took the saddle home and put it on my bike at my fit coordinates. The saddle is curved both in the rear and in the nose, so it is tough to get it just right. It was now nearly 5:30pm. I decided to ride toward CC, and adjust it there. On the ride to CC, the saddle felt good, no hotspots or pain emerging anywhere. It felt remarkably like the aliante from Fi'zik. The difference was that I could feel that my sit bones definitely were supporting my body on the bike. The Romin has very little padding, but I did not feel any discomfort.
When I got to CC, Dave leveled the saddle a bit, placing the nose downward a bit. I measured the SMP at 3in from rail to where your sit bones rest. Although I have not yet checked the Romin, my quess is that it is somewhat lower. Maybe if was fatigue from being a Friday after work, but I could definitely notice less power on the bike that with the SMP, so some tweeking is in order. I road back down route 3 to do a hill or two to see if the saddle caught upon returning from standing effort, but it nicely has a slightly downward turned nose that does not catch. On the ride, the best thing I can say is that I barely noticed the saddle. I forgot about it, and road comfortably. The only caveat would be that I only road 13 miles, and need a longer ride to judge better the long distance effects on my backside. For now though it looks promising...
Another adjustment that was made was that Daniel from CC road with me on Wedneday, and noticed that I need to go up on the steering tube to get a more relaxed position in my shoulders, as they were hunched when riding normally. Danny move the stem up 1 cm on the steering tube by moving the 10 mm spacer below the stem. On the ride I did notice more comfort, but think it may need to go do about 5 mm, and maybe get a 10mm shorter stem...We shall see.
The Specialized Romin Pro deserves a longer ride to truly test its medal, but with luck with be the saddle for me moving forward...For now the quest for the perfect saddle has landed on the Romin steps.
Monday, August 29, 2011
Friday, August 26, 2011
The quest for the perfect saddle...
A bit of background to this story:
During the first week of July, I was on a long ride to Cedar Lake in Chester Connecticut, which is about a 85 mile ride for me from home, when I was struck from behind by a car just after an intersection. Although I was not hurt at all, my Cervelo R3 was retired due to stress fractures in the frame. This meant that I needed a new bike, which the insurance company was nice enough to provide, so I choose to upgrade to an R5. Dan at Cycle Concepts had one on the floor in my size, and offered it to me at a discount for just the frame. I went to look at it, and it was mostly black with some grey, but it was the Celtic Green that caught my eye! At that moment I knew my destiny...R5.
The only thing was that my White and Red Fizik Aliante saddle does not go with black and green, so that meant a new saddle. Well, since I had to get a new saddle anyway, the Aliante worked for rides under 40 miles, but gave me a bit of soreness in my soft places after that. I decided to at that point to go on the "Quest for a Perfect Saddle".
Having had a Brooks Pro Leather Saddle for quite some time on my old steel bike, 35 years or so, it was briefly in the mix. The problem is weight and style. Although the Brooks Pro is a beautiful work of art, atop the R5, not so much. It also weigh as much a my frame, so the bike would be a bit top heavy if you catch my meaning...Most people would say that I am already top heavy, and that shouldn't matter, but one can dream can't they...Therefore my brother Nick and I came up with a few criteria for the saddle:
1. It must be under 300 grams, preferably under 200, but beggar can't be choosers. 2. It must look good atop the R5 frame. 3. It must not hurt my tender back side on long rides.
The first time I decided to venture away from Brook was 2 years ago when riding indoors, so Dave had me go onto the Fi'zik site and read about their philosophy on saddle design and fitting. Their's is an anotomical effort to fit people by spinal flexibility, body type and riding style. I was a Bull, as most of us know already, so the Aliante was the choose. It works perfectly fine for all rides under 40 miles, which to be honest are most of my ride, except events and summer jounts. The quest continued...
Dan at Cycling Concepts in Rocky Hill, CT put me on the A...O'Meter to check my saddle width using my sit bone width. We had tried this once before, but could not get a reading as my back side has too much padding. This time it indicated about a 140 mm width saddle or Medium would suffice. Dan was convinced through prior testing and research that Bontreger had come up with the perfect saddle with the Inform RL. I happily tried this saddle there wider version as it had a 90 day return policy. So we put the saddle on and I road about a 40 mile loop around the reservoir. The first thing I noticed on the 148 mm saddle were the wings rubbing against my back side. This was unacceptable, so Dan suggested the smaller 130 mm saddle, bad IDEA. I had never been in so much pain as after my first ride with the narrower saddle. Today, after two weeks have lapsed, it still hurts. So the Inform was mis-informed, and history. The quest continued.
On my ride back to Cycling Concepts I took a ride by Berlin Bike to check out the Specialized Saddles, as Nick has a Toupe that he loves. When I got there I had a discussion of my needs with Scott, as he said he was trying the new Romin Evo, which is very light and he liked it, but he keeps swithing back to his Fizik Arione. Everyone had their favorite saddle, some like the flat seat that they can have more than one position on, and some like a more saddle like seat that only provides 1 position and you sit down in, while others need a releaf cut in the middle. Well when I went back, Scott was ocupodo, and I dealt with the owner, who did not know my story, and put me onto an Avatar, which Nick had already loaned me from his stock to try. I have a hard time with saying no, so when he said I could bring it back and exchange it, I said what the hay, and just went along.
The Specialized Avatar is a nice saddle and very comfy indeed, but weight over 300 grams, "Outside acceptable rance", and has two elevated pads where you side bones are for cushioning. The problem for me was that after a bit, those bumps would force my body forward on the saddle so I was siddle on the nose with the saddle going up my soft area...NOT GOOD. So I have been back there now 3, maybe even 4 time, trying to get them to order me a Romin SL. Which is what Scott was riding in the Evo model (Evo meaning very light). I like the Romin because of its shape. It has a saddle shape with a large cutout and a dipped nose in the front. I like the idea of the nose dipping downward in the front a bit to keep from catching my shorts on the nose after standing, which is very anoying a energy robbing. It is very similar to the Aliante design with a cutout. It comes in today....So the quest continues on...
In the mean time, I have several riding buddies, both indoor and outdoor who ride the Selle SMP. Sondre the Wrench at Cycling Concepts ride one, and I thought I would give that a try. Well, it cost almost $300. This is not something that I am going to buy to try, so I needed a fitting center, or a shop that lends out test saddle's and has the SMP's to try. I found that Central Wheel in West Hartford was on the list of Test Centers on Selle's site, so I went and picked one up. I tried to Glider model which is designed for medium to wide pelvices. The SMP had a large center cutout with a saddle shape and pronounced dip in the nose. This saddle provide on sitting position like the Aliante. I road it for about 60 miles in 2 days, and enjoyed it, especially when I moved in forward by 1 cm. This slight move provided a lot more power on the hills and I wound up with a 1 mph increase or better in my avg speed...NICE! However after the initial 20 miles or so, I notice that with saddle had a narrow band to sit in between the rear peaks and the middle hump. This must fit some euro gents bottom, but not my Bull butt. It was very noticeable. If the SMP was not $300 buck, I might try it over time, but cost prevents me from making the leap.
Today is the day my Romin comes in, so we shall see what that brings. If that doesn't work, Fi'zik has a new to 2011 saddle series called the Versus. The Versus version of most of the Fi'zik line had a center channel with no foam their. So the Aliante Versus, will be my next attempt if the Romin SL does not make the grade...The Quest Continues....
During the first week of July, I was on a long ride to Cedar Lake in Chester Connecticut, which is about a 85 mile ride for me from home, when I was struck from behind by a car just after an intersection. Although I was not hurt at all, my Cervelo R3 was retired due to stress fractures in the frame. This meant that I needed a new bike, which the insurance company was nice enough to provide, so I choose to upgrade to an R5. Dan at Cycle Concepts had one on the floor in my size, and offered it to me at a discount for just the frame. I went to look at it, and it was mostly black with some grey, but it was the Celtic Green that caught my eye! At that moment I knew my destiny...R5.
The only thing was that my White and Red Fizik Aliante saddle does not go with black and green, so that meant a new saddle. Well, since I had to get a new saddle anyway, the Aliante worked for rides under 40 miles, but gave me a bit of soreness in my soft places after that. I decided to at that point to go on the "Quest for a Perfect Saddle".
Having had a Brooks Pro Leather Saddle for quite some time on my old steel bike, 35 years or so, it was briefly in the mix. The problem is weight and style. Although the Brooks Pro is a beautiful work of art, atop the R5, not so much. It also weigh as much a my frame, so the bike would be a bit top heavy if you catch my meaning...Most people would say that I am already top heavy, and that shouldn't matter, but one can dream can't they...Therefore my brother Nick and I came up with a few criteria for the saddle:
1. It must be under 300 grams, preferably under 200, but beggar can't be choosers. 2. It must look good atop the R5 frame. 3. It must not hurt my tender back side on long rides.
The first time I decided to venture away from Brook was 2 years ago when riding indoors, so Dave had me go onto the Fi'zik site and read about their philosophy on saddle design and fitting. Their's is an anotomical effort to fit people by spinal flexibility, body type and riding style. I was a Bull, as most of us know already, so the Aliante was the choose. It works perfectly fine for all rides under 40 miles, which to be honest are most of my ride, except events and summer jounts. The quest continued...
Dan at Cycling Concepts in Rocky Hill, CT put me on the A...O'Meter to check my saddle width using my sit bone width. We had tried this once before, but could not get a reading as my back side has too much padding. This time it indicated about a 140 mm width saddle or Medium would suffice. Dan was convinced through prior testing and research that Bontreger had come up with the perfect saddle with the Inform RL. I happily tried this saddle there wider version as it had a 90 day return policy. So we put the saddle on and I road about a 40 mile loop around the reservoir. The first thing I noticed on the 148 mm saddle were the wings rubbing against my back side. This was unacceptable, so Dan suggested the smaller 130 mm saddle, bad IDEA. I had never been in so much pain as after my first ride with the narrower saddle. Today, after two weeks have lapsed, it still hurts. So the Inform was mis-informed, and history. The quest continued.
On my ride back to Cycling Concepts I took a ride by Berlin Bike to check out the Specialized Saddles, as Nick has a Toupe that he loves. When I got there I had a discussion of my needs with Scott, as he said he was trying the new Romin Evo, which is very light and he liked it, but he keeps swithing back to his Fizik Arione. Everyone had their favorite saddle, some like the flat seat that they can have more than one position on, and some like a more saddle like seat that only provides 1 position and you sit down in, while others need a releaf cut in the middle. Well when I went back, Scott was ocupodo, and I dealt with the owner, who did not know my story, and put me onto an Avatar, which Nick had already loaned me from his stock to try. I have a hard time with saying no, so when he said I could bring it back and exchange it, I said what the hay, and just went along.
The Specialized Avatar is a nice saddle and very comfy indeed, but weight over 300 grams, "Outside acceptable rance", and has two elevated pads where you side bones are for cushioning. The problem for me was that after a bit, those bumps would force my body forward on the saddle so I was siddle on the nose with the saddle going up my soft area...NOT GOOD. So I have been back there now 3, maybe even 4 time, trying to get them to order me a Romin SL. Which is what Scott was riding in the Evo model (Evo meaning very light). I like the Romin because of its shape. It has a saddle shape with a large cutout and a dipped nose in the front. I like the idea of the nose dipping downward in the front a bit to keep from catching my shorts on the nose after standing, which is very anoying a energy robbing. It is very similar to the Aliante design with a cutout. It comes in today....So the quest continues on...
In the mean time, I have several riding buddies, both indoor and outdoor who ride the Selle SMP. Sondre the Wrench at Cycling Concepts ride one, and I thought I would give that a try. Well, it cost almost $300. This is not something that I am going to buy to try, so I needed a fitting center, or a shop that lends out test saddle's and has the SMP's to try. I found that Central Wheel in West Hartford was on the list of Test Centers on Selle's site, so I went and picked one up. I tried to Glider model which is designed for medium to wide pelvices. The SMP had a large center cutout with a saddle shape and pronounced dip in the nose. This saddle provide on sitting position like the Aliante. I road it for about 60 miles in 2 days, and enjoyed it, especially when I moved in forward by 1 cm. This slight move provided a lot more power on the hills and I wound up with a 1 mph increase or better in my avg speed...NICE! However after the initial 20 miles or so, I notice that with saddle had a narrow band to sit in between the rear peaks and the middle hump. This must fit some euro gents bottom, but not my Bull butt. It was very noticeable. If the SMP was not $300 buck, I might try it over time, but cost prevents me from making the leap.
Today is the day my Romin comes in, so we shall see what that brings. If that doesn't work, Fi'zik has a new to 2011 saddle series called the Versus. The Versus version of most of the Fi'zik line had a center channel with no foam their. So the Aliante Versus, will be my next attempt if the Romin SL does not make the grade...The Quest Continues....
Monday, August 8, 2011
2nd ride is a charm - First impressions of the Cervelo R5
R5 2nd ride is a charm - Middletown to Berlin by scott_t_ct at Garmin Connect - Details
On my second ride with the R5, I decided to do a small bit of climbing, so I went to Middletown and then back through East Berlin. It was a relief that the bike did not have that clunking noise from the BB anymore, so I was able to get out of the saddle today. This gave a better impression of the bike than my shorter ride on Saturday.
Yesterday I went to CC to have Sondre fix the BB, so he pressed the bearings in some more, which fixed the issue. I also adjusted the handlebars upward which put me in a great position for today's ride. The new saddle is going to take some getting used to, but I like the way it has a slim nose allowing me to pedal with my knees more inward. I do however feel I need the next size down, as it rubs on my a.. cheeks a bit causing soreness.
First real impressions of the R5 is that it is very "stiff" in the BB. All power goes straight to the wheels without any loss in the frame. I also feel that the R5 is more "Rigid" than the R3 making it so that you can feel the road under you a bit more. This may be due to the higher modulous carbon fiber. It is analogous to the R3 being a Catalac CTS and the R5 being a Porche 911. The R3 is fast and smooth, but the R5 is fast and nimble.
On my second ride with the R5, I decided to do a small bit of climbing, so I went to Middletown and then back through East Berlin. It was a relief that the bike did not have that clunking noise from the BB anymore, so I was able to get out of the saddle today. This gave a better impression of the bike than my shorter ride on Saturday.
Yesterday I went to CC to have Sondre fix the BB, so he pressed the bearings in some more, which fixed the issue. I also adjusted the handlebars upward which put me in a great position for today's ride. The new saddle is going to take some getting used to, but I like the way it has a slim nose allowing me to pedal with my knees more inward. I do however feel I need the next size down, as it rubs on my a.. cheeks a bit causing soreness.
First real impressions of the R5 is that it is very "stiff" in the BB. All power goes straight to the wheels without any loss in the frame. I also feel that the R5 is more "Rigid" than the R3 making it so that you can feel the road under you a bit more. This may be due to the higher modulous carbon fiber. It is analogous to the R3 being a Catalac CTS and the R5 being a Porche 911. The R3 is fast and smooth, but the R5 is fast and nimble.
Sunday, August 7, 2011
Road Tubeless Tire Installation notes...
I again went with the Dura Ace 7900 C24 wheels, which are tubeless. I thought I would write down the install technique Sondre came up with to make the job go smoothly and less messy.
- First we put on the tires using thin Mavic levers that are notched nicely in order not to damage the rims.
- When mounting around the stem, loosen it up and push it gently into the tire to allow the tire bead to nestle into the rim properly. (Key bit here)
- Once mounted you seat the wheel with compressed air to seat the tire.
- Let the air out, and lift one edge of the bead adjacent to the valve stem up just a bit with the mavic tire lever.
- Using a drip bottle insert latex sealant, (40 ml). Insert the tip of the squeeze bottle, (small 100 ml bottle will due), under the bead. With area you are working with at the about 2 o'clock position, you squeeze in the sealant.
- Re-seat the tire with compressed air.
- Use a hand pump go take the tire to max pressure, then let out the air and pump up to your desire tire pressure.
- Done!
R5 Build and Adjustments...
Pictures of the R5 build
Yesterday I finished the R5 build at Cycling Concepts in Rocky Hill after my R3 was hit from behind crushing the rear wheel, and damaging the frame at the rear seat stays. I decided to move up one level to the R5 because the frame was in Celtic Green, and I did not have to wait until October to get the new one. Changing color schemes meant that I had to change a few parts as well, which made the build a bit more money, but tied the bike together nicely. Love the new look
I still have one or two more changes to go, as my pedals are still red which clash a bit, I am going to look into getting a rebuild kit or used black pair of Zero's so round out the look. I also have to get new cams for the brakes, but they will due and are more long term changes.
After the build I went for a short 10 mile ride, and found a couple of fit changes I need. I had to tip the nose down on my saddle a bit, and level the bars, Done and Done. The one thing that worries me though is the bottom bracket made a bit clunk when I stood up and laid the weight to the pedals. This could be due to the bb being a bit loose, but more likely the BB needs to be press in a bit more. I will take it back into CC today for this fix.
It is raining out today, so I will have to wait to check it on the road until Monday morning. I a later ride on Monday after shop hours, and then ride a moderate ride 20-30 miles to check for any other adjustments before embarking on my Shop ride on Tuesday, and long ride Wednesday...
Wish me luck!
Yesterday I finished the R5 build at Cycling Concepts in Rocky Hill after my R3 was hit from behind crushing the rear wheel, and damaging the frame at the rear seat stays. I decided to move up one level to the R5 because the frame was in Celtic Green, and I did not have to wait until October to get the new one. Changing color schemes meant that I had to change a few parts as well, which made the build a bit more money, but tied the bike together nicely. Love the new look
I still have one or two more changes to go, as my pedals are still red which clash a bit, I am going to look into getting a rebuild kit or used black pair of Zero's so round out the look. I also have to get new cams for the brakes, but they will due and are more long term changes.
After the build I went for a short 10 mile ride, and found a couple of fit changes I need. I had to tip the nose down on my saddle a bit, and level the bars, Done and Done. The one thing that worries me though is the bottom bracket made a bit clunk when I stood up and laid the weight to the pedals. This could be due to the bb being a bit loose, but more likely the BB needs to be press in a bit more. I will take it back into CC today for this fix.
It is raining out today, so I will have to wait to check it on the road until Monday morning. I a later ride on Monday after shop hours, and then ride a moderate ride 20-30 miles to check for any other adjustments before embarking on my Shop ride on Tuesday, and long ride Wednesday...
Wish me luck!
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